Anonymous Anonymous

Volunteering on Plone... when communication fails

Tuesday, 10 de July del 2007
filed under ,

UPDATE:

There was a MISUNDERSTANDING when writing this post: Someone applied for me to the Plone Foundation committee, or there was a bug in the Plone site workflow with a wrong ending. I never did an application, but I received a rejection for one. I must thank Paul Everitt for the professionalism, patience, explanations and time spent on that issue. Now the original and WRONG post if you are still interested on how it was:

I started contributing Plone with Catalan translations in the year 2003 (if my memory is not giving me false positives), when Plone was in the early stages and nobody was sure if it was going to be a breaking market product or another complex CMS with an unhappy ending.

But despite all I believed in it and decided to contribute it adding my native tongue to the application.

After a really complex process to start collaborating and submitting my work, I started to spend many hours translating lines, lines and more lines. Not only for the plone core strings itself but for some other products (even those I was not using). I put many efforts correcting strings from other contributors as well, in order to have the maximum possible quality, and not to say I've been the only mantainer for a long long time for my language.

Several weeks ago I decided to take up again the Plone translations to complete missing strings for version 2 and prepare Plone 3.0 before the big launch... but then I received a disgusting email:

96346-83183.jpg

From: Godefroid Chapelle  < ... @... >
Date: 07/07/2007 15:35	 
Subject: Your application for membership to Plone Foundation

Hello,

The Plone Foundation wants to inform you that your application
for membership has not been accepted at this time.

We have found that your contributions have not yet reached the level
of the published merit guidelines.

However, we want to say how much we appreciate the work you have
already done with and for the Plone project and community.

As your contributions continue, your merit will likely reach the
threshold and we can re-evaluate your application.

Regards

--
in behalf of the Plone Foundation,

Godefroid Chapelle (aka __gotcha),
Membership committee

Instead of encouraging me to continue on my hard work and complete the 3rd version they come with the arrogance and they speak about what a privilege is to work with them. So I cannot be in the club anymore because I cannot reach the threshold they have established in a coffee-comitee.

I thought that I could take some vacations from version 2.5 to 3.0 (official unreleased), but in my back to work I've seen that

I am fired!

So, although it's going to be very hard for me living without the big fee Plone Foundation is giving me for my contributed work, at the well paid price of 0? per line, I think I'll manage in someway to pay my loan.

So, no Godefroid. You won't re-evaluate my application. You won't have such a big work again, I can assure this.

My plone-ca.po file is going to the trash right now, although I perfectly know you sue on this.

And for all you out there that need to localize your project into Catalan for free, I have no inconvenience in helping, but keep in mind that next March I need 15 days vacation for my honeymoon, so please, don't fire me in my vacation again. Thanks

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Comentarios

Opensource projects and arrogance against their free volunteers are an impossible combination...

In my opinion, this e-mail is just plain offensive... and stupid to say the least. I would be surprised if they have another catalan translator (tested and commited to the project for several years).

Sorry, but I just can say... fuck them!
Paul Everitt Paul Everitt
I'm also on the membership committee and I think there's an important aspect that isn't well-communicated: the Plone Foundation != Plone.

We specifically don't want the Plone Foundation to hijack the Plone Community. The community works well at organizing itself, creating software, and providing a social network for people to enjoy each other.

The Plone Foundation isn't about producing software. It is about legal and business obligations over a very long period of time. Since the members of the Foundation are participants in the legal entity, we chose to adopt the same merit guidelines as the Apache Software Foundation and the GNOME Foundation...lots of contributors to the software and a smaller number of members in the legal entity.

The parts of the email that were not bolded explained some of this, but perhaps not enough: your sense of value and reward from Plone should come from the community. The Plone Foundation isn't intended to be a club that anoints all applicants as insiders.

So rather than write a incendiary diatribe that omits clear statements of appreciation, show that you're really interested in the Plone Foundation by making constructive criticism. How people handle disagreements shows a lot about commitment.
Hi Paul,

First of all let me show you my appreciation to you and your work, not only in the Plone Foundation but also in Zope Europe, since we had some words in the Plone Conference in Vienna 4 years ago or so and I really enjoyed your talks and your simpathy, really.

That said, please note that I made some changes to the post: I removed bolds, the email of Godefroid (which was pasted accidentally) and the "Foundation" word of the title and in the middle post.

I think I have the right of write an incendiary diatribe quick after I've just read that i've been rejected after YEARS of commitment. The post was written when I was in the crest of the anger wave, but I think every single word.

If I receive an email signed as "in behalf of Plone Foundation" ensures it really expresses your comitee thinking, if not, change it.

I participate in a lot of projects, but if I ever see again that someone desestimates my work, I will stop and start with a new project. I don't like losing time.

Now the constructive part:
The first thing you should do as Fundation is to write a decent email and encourage people to keep up the good work. Say 'PLEASE' continue working, never 'WE DON'T WANT YOU until you work more'. Nobody as contributor is earning a euro with this.

I still don't understand how, if there is only a mantainer for a language, is not preserved. How the hell can I be kicked if there is no one else? In my opinion, it's crazy.

To finish:
If I would have received an email saying 'please consider finishing your translation' I would have done that.
I think Paul is mostly right on his points, except on the last commitment part.

I know Albert from a long time, and he has spent lots and lots of hours translating Plone, a project he doesn't particularly use since a couple of years... But he has kept contributing, why?

Because his commitment is not on Plone itself, but on Catalan widespreading and usage. He contributes translating a lot of other projects, Mozilla Firefox been a quick example.

So Plone is just another tool for him (and me). It's ok if it does the job, but that's all about it. Why are we to feel privileged by belonging to the so called community? It's Plone & Plone Foundation that should feel proud to have hundreds of contributors. Paul, the world doesn't turn around Plone, but I can understand your opinions from your-so-involved point of view.

My point is that volunteers should not be required to demonstrate their commitment to opensource projects in order to keep contributing on them, on the contrary, these projects should treat contributors as clients, and behave gratefully towards them... just a few kind words from time to time, nothing fancy!

And remember that volunteers like Albert and web developers like me are the best advocators of Plone or similar projects, why piss them off with such messages?
Hi

You totally missing the point

Stop to sit next to the computer

I am trying to use this for myself but as you see from this post not working so much...

Your friend from Israel

Ofer Weisglass
Hi Ofer. I am missing the point... about what your are trying to say. What are you exactly talking about?

Regards
Paul Everitt Paul Everitt
Maguilar, I think I'm still not doing a good job of explaining the "PF != Plone" point.

When you say: "My point is that volunteers should not be required to demonstrate their commitment to opensource projects in order to keep contributing on them", I totally agree with you. I think what you (plural) are doing is wonderful and we badly need to create a space where you feel rewarded for your efforts and want to contribute to Plone.

However, that space should be the Plone community. The legal entity of Plone turns its members into shareholders and voters about the a variety of matters. Like the Apache Software Foundation, we thus make a distinction between developer and member: http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles.

We have decided that the Plone Foundation membership should not be equal "all that have contributed to Plone". We have also decided that there should be merit guidelines. Do you agree with these two points?

If so, then perhaps the definition of merit isn't well-stated (it was synthesized from the GNOME Foundation and other sources.) Or perhaps you feel the merit definition should change, as it didn't admit someone that should have been included as a member. Finally, perhaps the membership application didn't include all the good work that was done.

These are all problems with mechanics, not intent, and can be easily modified. Certainly the Plone Foundation didn't intend to "fire" anybody! Again, we don't want to take over the community. We only want people that are interested in helping manage the non-code parts of Plone.
There has been some confusion in the whole thread. I need you to clarify some aspects.

Yesterday, late at night, while I was chatting with the Hebrew translator Ofer Weisglass in an intent by him of pacifying things I rode again the email until the line saying that I've been rejected from the membership, but the Plone Foundation membership, not the community membership.

So, if my application has been rejected is because I applied to somewhere, isn't it? You cannot be rejected if there was no solicitude first. Well, I am suprised because I have not applied for the Plone Foundation Membership, no, ever! I never had interest on becoming a member of the committee, i always wanted only to contribute in my native tongue.

So my interpretation, was totally different hence I didn't apply for Foundation membership. I understood that I was not working enough to keep on being a (community) member.

Now, I ask: why I received this email?

Is someone out there speaking in my name and applying for me? I don't believe that. And even more, have I ever been a member of the Plone Foundation without knowing it?

Please, someone could clarify me this.
Paul Everitt Paul Everitt
Alombarte, could you email me (paul at agendaless dot com). I need to find out your plone.org username. I can then find out about how this bug happened. [wink]

The list of members, along with guidelines about applying, can be found here: http://plone.org/foundation/members
Paul,

"We have decided that the Plone Foundation membership should not be equal ?8364;œall that have contributed to Plone?8364;. We have also decided that there should be merit guidelines. Do you agree with these two points?"

Absolutely. How the Plone Foundation manages itself has never been a subject of my interest, nor I was never interested in any kind of membership. I fully respect your work and hope you are doing great, but polytics and dissemination are not my cup of tea.

My main interest is in deploying Plone sites whenever it suits my client's needs, and Albert just wants to help translating into catalan one of the best and most popular opensource CMS.

I don't expect any reward from spreading Plone sites, on the contrary, I am grateful to find quality platforms to build client solutions upon... be it Plone or whatever framework suits my needs, I am not a religious person :-)

I don't know if Albert talked to Godefroid, but it seems it has just been a 'bug', otherwise this kind of e-mails should have a totally different redaction, if you ask me!

And as Albert said, we remember you and Joel Burton with simpathy since the first Plone conference at Vienna, back in 2004. You both are awesome speakers and great community builders :-)

Best regards, Paul
Paul Everitt Paul Everitt
Thanks for the kind words about Vienna 2004. Are you going to the Naples conference this year?
You are welcome,

Manel Aguilar and myself used to work together in a company that we have left. There we had lots of Plones running. In our new companies we use both the PHP technology, so I think there is no chance to assist to the Plone Conference anymore. If we did, we should empty our own pockets and sacrifice part of our anual holiday, which I have to discuss with Manel and also with my budget approver (the one living under the same roof)

I think is too expensive. What is sure is that i cannot spend 500 euros in the travel.

Are you thinking in organizing some day this in Barcelona? There is an excellent climate and good beaches. Take notes :)
I would love to attendee to your Plone conference at Naples, unfortunately I have already spent my 'credits' for this year's attendance to meetings, being Stuttgart's PHP International Conference 2007 the culprit.

I remember Plone conferences being more a meeting of old friends, instead of the 'professionalism' that impregnates this PHP conference in particular.

We shall meet in the future, I would love to attendee a fresh, project oriented conference again :-)

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